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 by Helion, Level 25
Last updated at March 19, 2009, 6:22 pm
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The thing that perplexed me the most was: 'How the hell do you balance this?'. I was stupid to even ask, because the answer is simple: 'you don't'. This became clear when i faced off against an enemy with an evidently better deck, whereas I had just begun and was using my starter deck. After being blasted to shards, I decided I wasn't ready for PvP yet, and tried PvE. I'm not going to say BF shines in it, but I understood a lot more about the game mechanics, and appreciated much more the lack of base building, and how everything was based on map control, and tactics too. I also appreciated the diversity in the gameplay style of the different types of decks, and the skills and unit differences.I concluded that this game is excellent, a needed change in the static horizon of RTS gaming, and it ticks all the boxes it needs to be classified as a 'gem'. But there is one thing, always nagging at the back of your head when you play it. You always have to remember that in this game you don't win by tactics as much as you do by having money. You need money to get more cards, and while your basic deck and first free few booster packs will carry you some way, you're going to need more and better to get on, to win PvP, to stay on par with the others. And the fact that BF points are priced the same for the US and the EU doesn't help it, because I don't see why I should be paying more (25% more, actually) for the exact same everyone else gets: a chance for better units. It's not helped by the fact that when you buy an RTS, you pay for all the units inside, whereas here you'll need to pay to have a chance to get some.
BattleForge is a brilliant concept ruined by greed. You can say all you want about 'needing to generate revenue' and 'needing to cover the budget', but there is no way someone should spend money on a game, and then an unspecified (high) amount of money to be able to thoroughly enjoy it and, worst of all, suffer the risk of seeing all the property he or she bought become worthless if the whole thing comes down.So I suggest you do something else. If you like TCGs: go on Magic Online. It's good, it's balanced, and while you still have to pay for everything, you can still ask to be sent a real life counter part of those online cards. Even if the ships goes down, you get a small return of the investment.
I sincerely hope EA backtrack at least partially on this design decision, but knowing it involves them losing potential profit, I know I shouldn't get my hopes too high.
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Sol Invictus Mar 19, 2009 at 6:38 pm
+1 votes
Good post, Helion. BattleForge is a game I've considered playing (and subsequently writing about) but the whole concept of having to pay for new units to be better than my opponents is a complete turn-off to me as a competitive gamer, because it rewards bad players willing to spend money on the game over strategists and tacticians.
I'd write commentary on Magic: The Gathering in its application of powerful cards as an advantage over other players but having never played the game gives me little room to provide adequate commentary with regards to the matter. Snail, who's actually confessed to playing Magic, might actually have something to add.
If anything, Guild Wars has proven proved that a 'deck system' similar to Magic: The Gathering's can work extremely well to create balanced gameplay as long as every skill is available to every player willing to dedicate time and effort to acquiring that skill through legitimate, game-based methods.
That EA's BattleForge requires additional expenditure from the player's wallet to promote gameplay balance is both regrettable and deplorable.
I'd write commentary on Magic: The Gathering in its application of powerful cards as an advantage over other players but having never played the game gives me little room to provide adequate commentary with regards to the matter. Snail, who's actually confessed to playing Magic, might actually have something to add.
If anything, Guild Wars has proven proved that a 'deck system' similar to Magic: The Gathering's can work extremely well to create balanced gameplay as long as every skill is available to every player willing to dedicate time and effort to acquiring that skill through legitimate, game-based methods.
That EA's BattleForge requires additional expenditure from the player's wallet to promote gameplay balance is both regrettable and deplorable.
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Helion Mar 19, 2009 at 6:54 pm
+1 votes
I have played Magic: The Gathering too. And while it is true that it rewards whoever has the most money, I find that skilled players often also have a better deck and far deeper understanding of game mechanics. This means that having a good deck won't help you if you know little about the game. In some tournaments after the finalist had won he would have a game with a staff member, who was allowed a deck with no rare cards. And the staff member would nearly always win. This sort system should be what EA should orient itself to. As it is right now, the impact of the system on the game is on par with most cash shop MMOs. And that doesn't put it into too good company.
Sol Invictus Mar 19, 2009 at 6:56 pm
+1 votes
You could even say that it puts the game in bad company, as if being developed and published by EA wasn't enough.
Bethryn Mar 19, 2009 at 10:48 pm
+1 votes
Yeah, most of Magic's history has involved greed. Their designers are awesome, but their marketing strategy leaves something to be desired, even if it is very successful.
Claire Mar 20, 2009 at 2:04 am
+1 votes
Hasbro was ever at odds with Wizards of the Coast. It's so sad that Hasbro ruined quite a bit about D&D because of their pursuit of money.
Helion Mar 20, 2009 at 9:32 am
+1 votes
Magic is pretty much like the WoW of TCGs. If you want a slice of the market, you're going to have to bite it off MTG's hold, which is not easy. It's a money harvesting colossus, but the fact that at least there are ways to compensate all your investments in it makes it satisfactory. I doubt BattleForge will compensate you economically for buying booster packs and having better cards.
Zombiemachine Mar 20, 2009 at 6:13 am
+1 votes
Magic is a money harvesting machine. I played the game a lot and used to be fairly good back in the day, but just stopped after it failed to provide thrills.
After a while it's just the same old concept of deck rotation between aggro, control and combo and it just gets old.
I would disagree on one point though. Keep in mind that I'm talking about physical cards here. If you're good enough (and people with good logic and a firm grasp of strategy can easily achieve this), you can get a lot of free prizes at tournaments and thus vastly reduce the cost of progressing. I did it for years. If that weren't the case, I'd stop playing it immediately.
After a while it's just the same old concept of deck rotation between aggro, control and combo and it just gets old.
I would disagree on one point though. Keep in mind that I'm talking about physical cards here. If you're good enough (and people with good logic and a firm grasp of strategy can easily achieve this), you can get a lot of free prizes at tournaments and thus vastly reduce the cost of progressing. I did it for years. If that weren't the case, I'd stop playing it immediately.
Lusida Mar 20, 2009 at 2:41 pm
+1 votes
Played Magic a lot back in those days and was lucky to have some beta cards from a friend who stopped playing and had only two decks left after he sold most of his cards.
Those 2 decks infected me. It lasted about 3 years and it was always thrilling to open a booster pack to slowly reveal every card in hope for a ultra rare...
Well its true, experienced players can almost always beat newbies, no matter the deck, especially when playing in teams or when mixing different editions is allowed. But whenever the opponent has a understanding of the game, similar to yours, better cards win.
I sold several thousand cards after 3 years for far more than 2000 Euro, i guess it was more than i invested, lucky me.
Buying digital cards doesnt feel "precious".
Im sure physical MTG cards will still be worth a lot in 50 years.
Im almost sure noone will even remembers BForge in 50 years.
The money you invest dies with the online service.
Sometimes **** happens, doesnt it ? Hello HGL.
Anyway i learned from MTG and will not buy the game.
Those 2 decks infected me. It lasted about 3 years and it was always thrilling to open a booster pack to slowly reveal every card in hope for a ultra rare...
Well its true, experienced players can almost always beat newbies, no matter the deck, especially when playing in teams or when mixing different editions is allowed. But whenever the opponent has a understanding of the game, similar to yours, better cards win.
I sold several thousand cards after 3 years for far more than 2000 Euro, i guess it was more than i invested, lucky me.
Buying digital cards doesnt feel "precious".
Im sure physical MTG cards will still be worth a lot in 50 years.
Im almost sure noone will even remembers BForge in 50 years.
The money you invest dies with the online service.
Sometimes **** happens, doesnt it ? Hello HGL.
Anyway i learned from MTG and will not buy the game.
Snail Mar 20, 2009 at 6:50 pm
+1 votes
I agree that digital cards just don't do it for me. My fondest memories of MTG have to do with social interaction and the dynamics of handling tangible decks. For instance, the wonderful sensation of suspense as an opponent taps land, and deviously, lovingly places something devastating on the table. The tactile bliss of handling those cards, tapping them, revealing them--that's what was precious. I don't think a digital game will ever replicate or rival the experience.
Helion Mar 20, 2009 at 8:10 pm
+1 votes
Aaaah, the pleasure of enchanting enemy creatures to be a nuisance to them rather than to me, the sense of cruelty as I while away their life points ever so slowly, the sense of achievement of winning a game, and having put up a serious fight when I lose. These satisfactions are rarely found in other games.
Sol Invictus Mar 20, 2009 at 8:14 pm
+1 votes
Despite being a geek (though not really a self-professed one) I'd never had the chance or the opportunity to get into MTG or any other trading card games. I didn't really know anyone who was into it and most of my friends played CounterStrike and Warcraft 3, and apparently most of them still do, to this day. I'm not sure what it is about these games that makes people still play them despite the fact that better games exist, but I digress.
Regardless, my understanding of the gameplay mechanics come purely from my experience with Guild Wars and Etherlords, which was a turn-based strategy game on the PC with trading card mechanics. It wasn't a bad game, but as you say, digital games simply lack the tactile bliss of real card games.
If I could profess a wish (and it's something I've thought about for a time), it would be to play MTG with someone, for real. Munchkin just doesn't cut it.
Regardless, my understanding of the gameplay mechanics come purely from my experience with Guild Wars and Etherlords, which was a turn-based strategy game on the PC with trading card mechanics. It wasn't a bad game, but as you say, digital games simply lack the tactile bliss of real card games.
If I could profess a wish (and it's something I've thought about for a time), it would be to play MTG with someone, for real. Munchkin just doesn't cut it.
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