POST STUFF
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 by Sol Invictus, Level 57
Last updated at September 8, 2009, 4:24 am
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Non-transferable items that are solely attached to your character, or “soulbound” equipment, have always been a touchy subject in online RPGs. With many items subject to being traded, the in-game economy in an online game is often at risk of hyperinflation, and handing items down to lower level characters, or “twinking” as it’s more commonly known tends to arouse discussions on game balance and fairness.
Bashiok has since posted a number of details regarding bound items in Diablo III to clarify statements made by the game’s lead designer Jay Wilson to the effect that soulbound items would exist in the upcoming game.
"Yes, true, as Jay said at BlizzCon we are planning to have some amount of items that will bind to a character upon equipping them.
We absolutely won't have items that bind when picked up, except for the obvious things like quest items and other character-specific items that wouldn't/shouldn't be tradable anyway.
That alone, I think, should dissuade the most severe concerns with binding items. And before I go on just understand that while a lot of this is very stable in its concepts, the details aren't final.
For Bind on Equip (BoE), the idea right now is that it would only be applied to "end game" items of specific quality levels. So to start, it's not every item, and it's not even every item above a certain level. For the BoE items that will exist, you can pick them up, if you don't want it you can still trade it, or give it to another character, a friend, vendor it, whatever you like. But, if you make the commitment to keeping the item and equipping it, yes, it's yours now.
The reasoning is that in reality we need a solid way to keep the economy stable at the end game. With items building up over a potentially infinite amount of time there's no way to have any measure of control over worth of items. While an item may be the rarest and best in the game, over four or five years a stockpile has built up and those items are now commonplace and hold little value as compared to their rarity. The gold being earned by players stays the same or likely increases as players become more proficient at playing the game while they spend less as items lose their value. Gold value drops, and we're skirting into a familiar cycle.
By ensuring we can rely on some amount of "consumption" of items, their relative worth stays high, the market is predictable and both sellers and buyers enjoy a stable marketplace for (hopefully) many years.
Diablo II has an inconsistent approach which is the somewhat stable Ladder economy, since it's quite literally flushed out every so often. But it's a very intrusive approach to a problem that could be solved through other means that don't require making everyone start over.
As a quasi-aside: There's an idea being thrown around, and this is really not guaranteed in any way, that some or potentially all items that are bound to you could be bound to your entire account. So if you yourself "own" an item from it being bound, you can trade it between all the characters on your account freely. Feed alts your old-but-still-very-nice items, etc. That's just an idea, it may not take shape, but it's a possibility."
To clarify his statement further, Bashiok explained that the selection would be limited to “endgame” items and quest-related equipment or rewards.
"No armor/weapons/equippable items will be Bind on Pickup unless they are rewarded by quests. End-game items of specific quality types are currently planned to be Bind on Equip."
In other words, the economy will not be flooded with too many powerful items. Items will always retain their value regardless of how many of them are found over time, because there will always be a demand to meet the supply.
Source: Battle.net Discussion Forums
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22 comments
Project_Xii Sep 8, 2009 at 4:32 am
+1 votes
Sounds good to me. I especially like the idea of items staying in my account. That means that they must have made, or are making, some kind of shared stash or way of mailing your alts items. And if individual drops are still happening, this system is looking gold!
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tarquin Sep 8, 2009 at 6:54 am
+0 votes
More terrible news imo.
This quote is epic fail. Blizzard, you're supposed to make players create more and more characters. Therefore the demand for end game items will increase.
More evidence that Blizzard's target market for Diablo3 is old school diablo fanatics + people who think wow is too childish cos there's no blood.
This quote is epic fail. Blizzard, you're supposed to make players create more and more characters. Therefore the demand for end game items will increase.
More evidence that Blizzard's target market for Diablo3 is old school diablo fanatics + people who think wow is too childish cos there's no blood.
Project_Xii Sep 8, 2009 at 7:10 am
+2 votes
Erm.... what?
Why would people not make lots and lots of characters because of soulbound items?
And exactly what would Blizzards market be if they didn't aim for old school Diablo fanatics and people who think WoW isn't mature enough?
Your reasoning lacks depth. Flesh it out a bit more, cause at the moment it just sounds like you're whining for the sake of it / trying to fit in with the "I'm cool cause I hate everything" crowd.
Why would people not make lots and lots of characters because of soulbound items?
And exactly what would Blizzards market be if they didn't aim for old school Diablo fanatics and people who think WoW isn't mature enough?
Your reasoning lacks depth. Flesh it out a bit more, cause at the moment it just sounds like you're whining for the sake of it / trying to fit in with the "I'm cool cause I hate everything" crowd.
tarquin Sep 8, 2009 at 11:57 am
+1 votes
why risk upsetting a winning formula?
especially when the upset comes from world of snorecraft.
especially when the upset comes from world of snorecraft.
Bethryn Sep 8, 2009 at 2:03 pm
+1 votes
Diablo II is not a winning formula today. Honestly, it's just not. Several people have been trying to get me to play it quite regularly now, and while it's not exactly unpleasant, there are so many things about it that just tire me out.
Incidentally, BoE items encourage replayability. Once you've used them on one character, you can't switch them over to another new character who needs them. If the optimal gear is all BoE, you'll need to play enough for each character in order to attain that gear, rather than just make one character, get all the gear, then make another, level it, and then twink it out in the uniques/sets/runewords that the first character found.
Incidentally, BoE items encourage replayability. Once you've used them on one character, you can't switch them over to another new character who needs them. If the optimal gear is all BoE, you'll need to play enough for each character in order to attain that gear, rather than just make one character, get all the gear, then make another, level it, and then twink it out in the uniques/sets/runewords that the first character found.
Sol Invictus Sep 8, 2009 at 10:59 pm
+1 votes
Exactly. While I'm still able to play DII for some very nostalgic reasons, implementing it in a new game is a recipe for disaster. Hellgate: London attempted to implement the same formula into its gameplay by having four simplified stats that you could manually assign points to and a skill tree system absolutely alike DII's but with far less variety and the whole system fell flat on its face.
It's necessary to reinvent the wheel if the wheel is shaped like a rectangle.
It's necessary to reinvent the wheel if the wheel is shaped like a rectangle.
tarquin Sep 9, 2009 at 7:43 am
+1 votes
BoE items discourage people from creating new characters.
Respec's discourage people from creating new characters.
No flexible attributes hints to a game where a clothie is a clothie, and no amount of improv will enable you to sacrifice vitality for strength and equip that stormshield.
I'm still going to get D3, of course, I'm a total fantasy/action RPG fiend, but these 3 issues are major problems imo and I suspect they'll prevent D3 from being a CLASSIC memorable game, like D2, in the future.
Respec's discourage people from creating new characters.
No flexible attributes hints to a game where a clothie is a clothie, and no amount of improv will enable you to sacrifice vitality for strength and equip that stormshield.
I'm still going to get D3, of course, I'm a total fantasy/action RPG fiend, but these 3 issues are major problems imo and I suspect they'll prevent D3 from being a CLASSIC memorable game, like D2, in the future.
Bethryn Sep 9, 2009 at 9:54 am
+1 votes
BoE items discourage people from creating new characters.
This depends on how well BoE items transfer between different builds. If one set of gear suits all builds of a class, sure, people won't make more of that class. On the other hand, if different builds require vastly different gear, then even with the new inventory, you're likely going to start hitting inventory limits if you try doing it all on one character, since you can't mule off the old items.
As an aside to this, if the Ladder resets work the same way as before, you'll have to create a new Ladder character every so often anyway.
This depends on how well BoE items transfer between different builds. If one set of gear suits all builds of a class, sure, people won't make more of that class. On the other hand, if different builds require vastly different gear, then even with the new inventory, you're likely going to start hitting inventory limits if you try doing it all on one character, since you can't mule off the old items.
As an aside to this, if the Ladder resets work the same way as before, you'll have to create a new Ladder character every so often anyway.
Sol Invictus Sep 8, 2009 at 9:43 am
+1 votes
Flooding the market with equipment does anything but encourage players to make new characters. If anything, it makes most equipment worthless as players will simply opt to cherrypick the best items out of the bunch.
Madyo Sep 9, 2009 at 10:04 am
+1 votes
It will help greatly if they do implement some Bind to Account items. I imagine people would feel much more inclined to make new characters if they have some decent gear in the bank already, rather than having to go through the whole process of gearing up a new character from scratch.
tarquin Sep 9, 2009 at 5:35 pm
+1 votes
I played Diablo 2 for a few years, I had a level 99, a couple of lvl 98 characters and at least a dozen other characters over lvl 80. Throughout my D2 days, I don't recall a time when stormshield or harlequin crest were 'worthless'. Not even when dupe/bug items totally flooded the market.
There was so many reasons to create a new character, try a new build, the demand for items was always huge (until the majority of players in the game have wealthy accounts).
This is mainly because you could afford to make experimental builds, because you can recycle the items. It's prospectively not worth the risk in D3, soulbinding valuable items to your guinea pig character.
Improving on the shortcomings of D2 is one thing, but destroying the classic Diablo mould is recipe for disappointment.
There was so many reasons to create a new character, try a new build, the demand for items was always huge (until the majority of players in the game have wealthy accounts).
This is mainly because you could afford to make experimental builds, because you can recycle the items. It's prospectively not worth the risk in D3, soulbinding valuable items to your guinea pig character.
Improving on the shortcomings of D2 is one thing, but destroying the classic Diablo mould is recipe for disappointment.
Cirno Sep 9, 2009 at 10:24 pm
+2 votes
Anonymous said
I played Diablo 2 for a few years, I had a level 99, a couple of lvl 98 characters and at least a dozen other characters over lvl 80. Throughout my D2 days, I don't recall a time when stormshield or harlequin crest were 'worthless'. Not even when dupe/bug items totally flooded the market.
There was so many reasons to create a new character, try a new build, the demand for items was always huge (until the majority of players in the game have wealthy accounts).
This is mainly because you could afford to make experimental builds, because you can recycle the items. It's prospectively not worth the risk in D3, soulbinding valuable items to your guinea pig character.
Improving on the shortcomings of D2 is one thing, but destroying the classic Diablo mould is recipe for disappointment.
There was so many reasons to create a new character, try a new build, the demand for items was always huge (until the majority of players in the game have wealthy accounts).
This is mainly because you could afford to make experimental builds, because you can recycle the items. It's prospectively not worth the risk in D3, soulbinding valuable items to your guinea pig character.
Improving on the shortcomings of D2 is one thing, but destroying the classic Diablo mould is recipe for disappointment.
Throughout my D2 days, I don't recall a time when stormshield or harlequin crest were 'worthless'. Not even when dupe/bug items totally flooded the market.
Now imagine that the ladders were never reset. How's your economy doing now?
The fact is, even with ladder resets, the relative awesomeness and rarity of those items does obviously decline over time. Without resets, their worth literally approaches zero. This should be easily understood.
In an economy where a Stormshield was BoE, I would be much, *much* more in awe of seeing one or actually obtaining one than in an economy where they could be freely passed around. They would be worth more.
This is mainly because you could afford to make experimental builds, because you can recycle the items. It's prospectively not worth the risk in D3, soulbinding valuable items to your guinea pig character.
You've got it backwards. You see, in D3, Blizzard does not want you to have to make guinea pig characters, because that isn't fun. They don't want you to have to reroll from scratch because you put 8 more points into STR than you were supposed to, because that isn't fun. They don't want a large part of your character customization to be based on decisions you made when you were level 14, because that isn't fun.
You see? In D3, you didn't mess up your build at level 14. You don't have to scrap your character for any reason unless you want to play something else.
In short, go ahead and soulbind that item. There's nothing stopping you. If, however, you truly and honestly enjoy the tedium of re leveling characters to min/max something as non-interactive as stat points, go play a Korean RPG or something, because Blizzard has other ideas.
Improving on the shortcomings of D2 is one thing, but destroying the classic Diablo mould is recipe for disappointment.
The set of "Shortcomings of D2" and the set of "Classic Diablo mould" intersect.
Cirno Sep 9, 2009 at 10:28 pm
+1 votes
Sorry, blockquote tags apparently got stripped. Oh well.
Shadout Sep 8, 2009 at 11:06 pm
+2 votes
This is good news for the game economy.
I do hope they decide to implement 'Bind on Account' to allow items to be shared between your own chars. That will of course lower demand a bit, but if you for some reason decides to reroll (if that will even make sense in a post-respec world - but even if it wont, some people will always want to reroll) or start a new char who need the same gear, its always nice to know your items arent lost.
I do hope they decide to implement 'Bind on Account' to allow items to be shared between your own chars. That will of course lower demand a bit, but if you for some reason decides to reroll (if that will even make sense in a post-respec world - but even if it wont, some people will always want to reroll) or start a new char who need the same gear, its always nice to know your items arent lost.
Jabberwock Sep 9, 2009 at 2:17 am
+1 votes
I personally think mid-tiered items should have the ability to be shared, but the top tiered items should be attuned to one character. That way you can 'twink' your character to decent gear, but you still have to pay your dues for the best equipment. I have mixed feelings about the equipment market. Once you are geared, it is sometimes nice to be able to get money for twinks, if nothing else. But it pains me deeply to see someone who bought all their equipment and has no real clue how to play the character, when I spent time and effort 'earning' those same items while at the same time learning how to play a character to the best of my ability.
Vexew Sep 9, 2009 at 5:30 am
+1 votes
What bull****, first no stat allocation then this?
WoW is the biggest mistake Blizzard ever did, and their bringing their mistake into Diab.... err World of Diablo3 for sure.
Just wait for the next last straw, that Monk's, Wizard's etc cannot use Plate Armor or something.
WoW is the biggest mistake Blizzard ever did, and their bringing their mistake into Diab.... err World of Diablo3 for sure.
Just wait for the next last straw, that Monk's, Wizard's etc cannot use Plate Armor or something.
CANADAY Sep 9, 2009 at 10:34 am
+1 votes
BoE may be a good idea for the mass but it will kill league communities, how will our epic godly rares be sold?
If you go @ JSP you always see godly rare change hands over and over, this will stop, and we will never see the "perfect" X build again
.
If you go @ JSP you always see godly rare change hands over and over, this will stop, and we will never see the "perfect" X build again
. Bethryn Sep 9, 2009 at 3:19 pm
+1 votes
They haven't clarified whether rares will fall under the BoE thing yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it was only applied to items that have their statistics pre-determined.
Sol Invictus Sep 9, 2009 at 4:05 pm
+1 votes
Such communities only exist because the economy is nonexistent in D2. I'll be glad to see D2JSP go out like the dinosaurs.
CANADAY Sep 11, 2009 at 2:30 pm
+1 votes
Sol Invictus said
Such communities only exist because the economy is nonexistent in D2. I'll be glad to see D2JSP go out like the dinosaurs.
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