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 by thePinkBurns, Level 23
Last updated at September 25, 2009, 1:56 am
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The game in question is Commandos: Beyond the Call of Duty, the standalone expansion for Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines. Commandos, for the uninitiated, is a series of World War 2 based stealth action games, featuring a group of specialist soldiers, each with a unique method of taking down those pesky German soldiers.
While each of the soldiers carries a sidearm, and some even carry larger weapons, like a sub-machinegun, the emphasis of the game is on the use of stealth weapons, in order to not set off the alarms and unleash swathes of heavily armed German patrols into the area.
Whether by knife, harpoon, or lethal injection, enemies should be taken out silently, swiftly, and out of sight. When you're playing the game well that is.
Playing the early Commandos series again brings back memories from my childhood. Big fat cheating memories. Well, not cheating so much with this game, as I had grown out of my infinite money in Theme Hospital phase, and moved on to looking to play games as they were intended by their developers.
So not so much cheating, as just going about things all wrong. While it was nice of the developers to include guns in Commandos, it just no longer seems at all right to use them, and I look back on my younger self with a certain disdain for having ever felt them necessary.
It probably stemed from being quite an impatient child, with a rather slow PC that meant "quick save" and "quick load" most definitely deserved the air-quotes I mentally applied to them.
Why reload on failure, when it's just as easy to hide around a corner with all your commandos, sidearms drawn, and wait as the bumbling german army come round one-by-one into firing range?
Sure, it worked, but was it the proper way to go about things to get the most enjoyment out of the game? Just like with the Scribblenauts two item method - no.
Most of the fun in Commandos comes from the meticulous planning. My young-self's method of guns blazing robbed me of 90% of the fun of Commandos. Watching your target, watching the movements of his comrades, avoiding patrols, checking lines of sight, and ultimately slicing his throat and leaving nothing but a bloodstain where he used to stand, before depositing his body around a corner, or under a barrel. Perhaps even both, just to be safe.
If you set the alarm off, half of the fun is out the window straight away. Say goodbye to planning, and hello to 3-man machinegun patrols.
The fun in Scribblenauts is thinking of inventive ways of getting the star in the given situation. Of course you can use cheap methods to acheive this, but you're only cheating yourself. While others entertain the internet with their tales of zombie-pirate-robot antics, the vending machine exploiter has but one tale to tell.
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Project_Xii Sep 25, 2009 at 6:05 am
+2 votes
The problem is that most people will always take the easy way, and then blame the game. You see it all the time in Left 4 Dead.
"Omg, this game is so stupid. All you have to do is get into a corner and you're invincible. Broken game, too easy."
Yeah. That's right. It's a broken game because you choose to play it broken. Here's an idea: PLAY IT PROPERLY! Rather then Shiva stacking in the corner, or using an infinite melee exploit, how about you grow a pair of cajones and actually play it the mans way? The real way? Sadly, most think that 'breaking' or exploiting the game somehow makes them pro or superior.
No, you're really not. Anyone can do those things. You're a cheap, wussy, cheating, unskilled noob, and no one is impressed.
The rebuttal to all this is usually "If the developers are unprofessional enough to not playtest/think of these things, then we should do it just to show them how bad they are at making games" or "If it's in the game, we're allowed to do it." Of course, you'd only hear this from the most stupid of gaming trolls.
I'm sure everyone has heard of how bad Bioshock is because you can complete half the game with the Wrench alone. Because, you know, that's the only way to do it. There's no option otherwise.
I guess it just comes down to the type of gamer you are, and what you want to get out of your games. Some people simply want to win, or get the game over with as fast as possible. Valid reasons I suppose, as long as they don't go saying the games are broken because of it. Others want to play it properly to get their money's worth, and gain the sense of accomplisment.
But then there're people who just aren't good enough to play games properly. Some even openly admit this (I've met numerous people in CoD4 who use the noob tube and say "Sorry, I can't use anything else or I suck"), yet continue on doing that. Because that's totally going to make you better at the game. It's the ones the refuse to admit they're doing anything wrong or cheap, claimng they have 'leet skills' while doing it, that piss me off. They can all go die horrible on anthills for all I care.
Meh. That's my rant anyway. I hope people enjoy ruining Scribblenauts and wasting they're $40.
"Omg, this game is so stupid. All you have to do is get into a corner and you're invincible. Broken game, too easy."
Yeah. That's right. It's a broken game because you choose to play it broken. Here's an idea: PLAY IT PROPERLY! Rather then Shiva stacking in the corner, or using an infinite melee exploit, how about you grow a pair of cajones and actually play it the mans way? The real way? Sadly, most think that 'breaking' or exploiting the game somehow makes them pro or superior.
No, you're really not. Anyone can do those things. You're a cheap, wussy, cheating, unskilled noob, and no one is impressed.
The rebuttal to all this is usually "If the developers are unprofessional enough to not playtest/think of these things, then we should do it just to show them how bad they are at making games" or "If it's in the game, we're allowed to do it." Of course, you'd only hear this from the most stupid of gaming trolls.
I'm sure everyone has heard of how bad Bioshock is because you can complete half the game with the Wrench alone. Because, you know, that's the only way to do it. There's no option otherwise.
I guess it just comes down to the type of gamer you are, and what you want to get out of your games. Some people simply want to win, or get the game over with as fast as possible. Valid reasons I suppose, as long as they don't go saying the games are broken because of it. Others want to play it properly to get their money's worth, and gain the sense of accomplisment.
But then there're people who just aren't good enough to play games properly. Some even openly admit this (I've met numerous people in CoD4 who use the noob tube and say "Sorry, I can't use anything else or I suck"), yet continue on doing that. Because that's totally going to make you better at the game. It's the ones the refuse to admit they're doing anything wrong or cheap, claimng they have 'leet skills' while doing it, that piss me off. They can all go die horrible on anthills for all I care.
Meh. That's my rant anyway. I hope people enjoy ruining Scribblenauts and wasting they're $40.
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thePinkBurns Sep 25, 2009 at 11:59 am
+2 votes
Exactly. You can either try to play the game as it was developed to be played, and have a lot of fun, or do cheap things that may be fun for a while for you, but make things dull for everyone else.
One of the problems I have with multiplayer gaming is being forced through things the way other people want to go because it's the easy route. I don't even like things too challenging, but there's a certain thrill to be had in getting through a tough situation on your own ability and those of the people around you, rather than take the guaranteed win.
It just makes it incredibly difficult to do so when everyone else sits under a staircase or in a closet, waiting for the event to end, eh!
I have a nephew who, when I visit my brothers, likes to sit next to me while I play the 360 and tell me about everything. If I miss some health or some ammo that I had no intention of even looking for, he'll tell me about it. If there's a different type of creature coming up that requires a new tactic, he'll tell me. If there's an easy way for me to do something, he'll make sure he's told me in advance.
He's like sitting next to an audio strategy guide, and it completely ruins games. Some of them are games he's not even played, too! I can't imagine the amount of time he spends watching videos online just to be able to ruin games for me that he's not even interested in!
One of the problems I have with multiplayer gaming is being forced through things the way other people want to go because it's the easy route. I don't even like things too challenging, but there's a certain thrill to be had in getting through a tough situation on your own ability and those of the people around you, rather than take the guaranteed win.
It just makes it incredibly difficult to do so when everyone else sits under a staircase or in a closet, waiting for the event to end, eh!
I have a nephew who, when I visit my brothers, likes to sit next to me while I play the 360 and tell me about everything. If I miss some health or some ammo that I had no intention of even looking for, he'll tell me about it. If there's a different type of creature coming up that requires a new tactic, he'll tell me. If there's an easy way for me to do something, he'll make sure he's told me in advance.
He's like sitting next to an audio strategy guide, and it completely ruins games. Some of them are games he's not even played, too! I can't imagine the amount of time he spends watching videos online just to be able to ruin games for me that he's not even interested in!
jakethesnake Sep 25, 2009 at 3:06 pm
+1 votes
I couldn't agree with you two more. I think that online strategy guides and youtube videos have sucked the fun out of so many games. So often when I get stuck on something in a game I instantly want to find a walk through or watch a video of someone doing it, but in reality, I'm totally just ruining any sense of accomplishment or skill. If I beat a game like that, what good does it do me? It's about as worthwhile as doing a crossword by googling every clue. Sure, you finished it - but who cares?
In my opinion the only 'wrong' way to play a game is to treat it like a task that needs to be accomplished and not like a game that is there to be soaked up and enjoyed.
Talking strategy after you've played a game - that's fun. Telling someone 'Click A, then B, then C and you win' sounds more like what I do at work sometimes - clicking the mouse and hitting the keyboard to accomplish a task so I can move on to the next task. And I don't do it for fun, I do it for the paycheque so I can have fun!
In my opinion the only 'wrong' way to play a game is to treat it like a task that needs to be accomplished and not like a game that is there to be soaked up and enjoyed.
Talking strategy after you've played a game - that's fun. Telling someone 'Click A, then B, then C and you win' sounds more like what I do at work sometimes - clicking the mouse and hitting the keyboard to accomplish a task so I can move on to the next task. And I don't do it for fun, I do it for the paycheque so I can have fun!
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 7:12 am
+1 votes
Damn gamers, using the tools at their disposal for a more fluid experience. It's not like the devs should have thought about what they were putting in, right?
This is Bioshock all over again, where 2 plasmids and 2 weapons were useful and there was little reason to use others.
Now, you do have a point, namely that some "easy modes" break games, but still, devs should think about what they're doing when adding new tools. Part of the blame is obviously on gamers so intent on breaking their games, but most of it is still on the developers.
Also, on guides: thank God I saw a few on Mega Man 9 or I'd be buying new Wii Remotes and subsequently breaking them in frustration. There's always case and case.
This is Bioshock all over again, where 2 plasmids and 2 weapons were useful and there was little reason to use others.
Now, you do have a point, namely that some "easy modes" break games, but still, devs should think about what they're doing when adding new tools. Part of the blame is obviously on gamers so intent on breaking their games, but most of it is still on the developers.
Also, on guides: thank God I saw a few on Mega Man 9 or I'd be buying new Wii Remotes and subsequently breaking them in frustration. There's always case and case.
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 9:16 am
+1 votes
I did, and I disagree with that as well. And before you jump at my throat and call me an unskilled cheating maggot, I have finished all the games I own "legitimately".
As I said, it is a matter of preference. Some people can't do without breaking their games, and I don't see anything except limits in the very game's code stopping them from doing that. Which means it's up to the devs making their games as difficult as possible to break them.
By the way, I broke Bioshock because the part after Fontaine's betrayal was so terrible: anonymous scenarios, annoying 20000 hp enemies, losing maximum health first and freedom of use for your plasmids later. It conflicted so badly with my strategic "take your time" approach, I just wanted it to be over. The escort mission and the final boss battle were godawful, too, i would have cheated.
As I said, it is a matter of preference. Some people can't do without breaking their games, and I don't see anything except limits in the very game's code stopping them from doing that. Which means it's up to the devs making their games as difficult as possible to break them.
By the way, I broke Bioshock because the part after Fontaine's betrayal was so terrible: anonymous scenarios, annoying 20000 hp enemies, losing maximum health first and freedom of use for your plasmids later. It conflicted so badly with my strategic "take your time" approach, I just wanted it to be over. The escort mission and the final boss battle were godawful, too, i would have cheated.
Project_Xii Sep 26, 2009 at 10:04 am
+1 votes
Fair enough. Bioshock WAS awful after the the betrayal. All down hill from there, and everyone just wanted it to be over and done with. had gone on far too long already.
I'm more focused on those people who're intent on doing nothing but break games, then calling them crap because of it. It's incredibly hard for developers to weedle out every possible scenario that these people with too much time on their hands are willing to do. Some things slip through.
In the case of Scribblenauts, that was a pretty obvious and stupid mistake, agreed. But just cause that exists, doesn't mean the games permanently broken and/or bad. It's just the quickest way to do it. People can still discover the true way the puzzles were meant to be done; they aren't being forced to use the cheating method. Sadly, people will do it anyway, then toss the game away and never touch again, without getting any of the fun out of it that the developers intended. And some gamers think they're smart for doing this! THAT's what drives me up the wall.
Good to hear that you do actually bother to finish games legitimately though. The unskilled quote of mines was referring to the people who use the exploits in multiplayer games and think they're uber because of it. I'm sure you don't do that......... do you?
I'm more focused on those people who're intent on doing nothing but break games, then calling them crap because of it. It's incredibly hard for developers to weedle out every possible scenario that these people with too much time on their hands are willing to do. Some things slip through.
In the case of Scribblenauts, that was a pretty obvious and stupid mistake, agreed. But just cause that exists, doesn't mean the games permanently broken and/or bad. It's just the quickest way to do it. People can still discover the true way the puzzles were meant to be done; they aren't being forced to use the cheating method. Sadly, people will do it anyway, then toss the game away and never touch again, without getting any of the fun out of it that the developers intended. And some gamers think they're smart for doing this! THAT's what drives me up the wall.
Good to hear that you do actually bother to finish games legitimately though. The unskilled quote of mines was referring to the people who use the exploits in multiplayer games and think they're uber because of it. I'm sure you don't do that......... do you?
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 10:16 am
+1 votes
Well, I play medic in a competitive TF2 team. How the hell am I supposed to exploit? I exploit the soldier's health and use them as meatshields but then if I tried to parry rockets and pipe bombs with my body I'd die, and being only one medic in comp TF2, my team would lose ground and eventually the game. There are people who fiddle around with netcode, increasing or decreasing rates so as to become more difficult to hit... That gives thrice the satisfaction in beating them to the ground. 
As for what you said about people going for the easy way, that's a problem with mankind itself, people won't be bothered with using their brain and just scream "HELAP I CANT GET THROG TIHS GAEM TELL ME TRIXX PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZ", and you'd need to do a nice bit of purging in our gene pool to remove this kind of person.
As for what you said about people going for the easy way, that's a problem with mankind itself, people won't be bothered with using their brain and just scream "HELAP I CANT GET THROG TIHS GAEM TELL ME TRIXX PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZ", and you'd need to do a nice bit of purging in our gene pool to remove this kind of person.
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 10:25 am
+1 votes
Also, the winking emoticon doesn't seem to work. I only see it as ";\", which is not what I meant.
Project_Xii Sep 26, 2009 at 10:39 am
+1 votes
Lol. I love medic. It's great watching an enemy team fail, simply because they think more attackers = win. Sure, you think that, while the opposing team wipes you off the face of the game with a single ubered medic + co. hehe.
TF2 is pretty tight, and I don't really know of many exploits in legitmate Valve server games. There was side stabbing.... but that's fixed now. It's one of the few games where I really can't be mad at the fact that I'm losing, because it means that the people I'm up against really are more skilled then me. Some of those scouts and spies... holy jesus.
L4D, on the other hand. it's so incredibly rare to play a team that won't use every single exploit to their advantage. The occasions where people don't are brilliantly fun games, but god that are so rare. I do blame a lot of this on the L4D developers though. They've been so slack at fixing the original game. it's like they just gave up on it and decided to focus all their efforts on the sequel. Dead Air and Death Toll are so unbalanced it's not even funny. 9/10 games end up more frustrating then fun.
Still, I wish people would play it through proper way. It's been months now. The developers know we're pissed. We don't have to keep using the cheap methods to show how bad they are at level design and medikit placement. Can't we all focus on getting the most enjoyment out of the game we can? What's left of it, before the sequel comes and renders it completely obsolete?
Meh. The day we can introduce cholorine to the gene pool will be a lovely day.
TF2 is pretty tight, and I don't really know of many exploits in legitmate Valve server games. There was side stabbing.... but that's fixed now. It's one of the few games where I really can't be mad at the fact that I'm losing, because it means that the people I'm up against really are more skilled then me. Some of those scouts and spies... holy jesus.
L4D, on the other hand. it's so incredibly rare to play a team that won't use every single exploit to their advantage. The occasions where people don't are brilliantly fun games, but god that are so rare. I do blame a lot of this on the L4D developers though. They've been so slack at fixing the original game. it's like they just gave up on it and decided to focus all their efforts on the sequel. Dead Air and Death Toll are so unbalanced it's not even funny. 9/10 games end up more frustrating then fun.
Still, I wish people would play it through proper way. It's been months now. The developers know we're pissed. We don't have to keep using the cheap methods to show how bad they are at level design and medikit placement. Can't we all focus on getting the most enjoyment out of the game we can? What's left of it, before the sequel comes and renders it completely obsolete?
Meh. The day we can introduce cholorine to the gene pool will be a lovely day.
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 10:45 am
+1 votes
L4D is the only game that actively drove me to quit. First were its long term engagements, also called "Versus mode". Then it was having more skilled friends than me, and either burdening my team or getting completely flattened. After I got over that, with a lot of pain and losing a lot of sleep after a long afternoon's studying, all the bugs and exploits got to me, and how it took a team supremely more skilled than the other to break a shiva stack formation. In the end I just gave up.
I still have a sour taste in my mouth for those 25 € I spent on it, which could have got me a more enjoyable game. I know it doesn't sound like much money, but when you're not earning it, every penny counts.
I still have a sour taste in my mouth for those 25 € I spent on it, which could have got me a more enjoyable game. I know it doesn't sound like much money, but when you're not earning it, every penny counts.
thePinkBurns Sep 26, 2009 at 2:43 pm
+1 votes
Yep that's true, Helion. People might say "It's only €25!" but that's 25 euros that could have bought you something more worthwhile. The very reason I only spent £12 on it, i think it was at Valentines.
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Scribblenauts would be easy enough to fix. From the preview I read on Kotaku, the guy made it seem like once you put something in the world, like a Zombie, you then had to deal with it. The way it actually plays though, is you can just pick it up again and delete. If they were going to let you do that, they should have at least made you be in the same area as what you're trying to pick up again. That would fix that entire issue. Well perhaps not fix, but make the player have to work a little.
The article was more about getting fun out of a game the way its intended, but if you get fun out of the game doing it an unintended way, good on you. It might not be the way it was designed, but as long as it's entertaining you, and not hurting anyone else, fair enough.
When you're ruining other peoples fun online, it's a bit different. That is where developers need to step up and fix things quickly. With a singleplayer game, the only person able to 'ruin' the fun is yourself. Online, it's a tiny bit different, and developers really need to keep an eye on things far after release.
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Megaman 9 is one of those superhard old school modern games, isn't it? I'll let you off on that one
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I find the only situation where I look up what to do is when I've tried my hardest and the only thing I've come away with is a headache. If it's making you physically ill, go for it!
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Scribblenauts would be easy enough to fix. From the preview I read on Kotaku, the guy made it seem like once you put something in the world, like a Zombie, you then had to deal with it. The way it actually plays though, is you can just pick it up again and delete. If they were going to let you do that, they should have at least made you be in the same area as what you're trying to pick up again. That would fix that entire issue. Well perhaps not fix, but make the player have to work a little.
The article was more about getting fun out of a game the way its intended, but if you get fun out of the game doing it an unintended way, good on you. It might not be the way it was designed, but as long as it's entertaining you, and not hurting anyone else, fair enough.
When you're ruining other peoples fun online, it's a bit different. That is where developers need to step up and fix things quickly. With a singleplayer game, the only person able to 'ruin' the fun is yourself. Online, it's a tiny bit different, and developers really need to keep an eye on things far after release.
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Megaman 9 is one of those superhard old school modern games, isn't it? I'll let you off on that one
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I find the only situation where I look up what to do is when I've tried my hardest and the only thing I've come away with is a headache. If it's making you physically ill, go for it!
Helion Sep 26, 2009 at 3:03 pm
+1 votes
As I said, I only resort to breaking games if I've reached the limit of my ingenuity. On this I absolutely agree with you. However, my argument is that little is going to stop gamers finding a way to break games, so it's up to the developers to make people have fun the way they intended to. That also raises another issue: is allowing the use of a lot of thinking in order to break the game a necessary evil to keep the player's freedom of approaching situations, or must it be sacrificed?
About Mega Man 9: it was an uncommon buy for me, but I'm very glad I bought it for 2 reasons. First: I love irony, and it was so ironic to find a hardcore game on a console that seems to appeal so much to casual gamers. I can only imagine what happened to those who weren't aware of its fame as a very hard game. Second: it was a cheap and guaranteed good Wii title, which is rather uncommon; you usually pay a lot for decent Wii games, because you have to get Nintendo titles.
About Mega Man 9: it was an uncommon buy for me, but I'm very glad I bought it for 2 reasons. First: I love irony, and it was so ironic to find a hardcore game on a console that seems to appeal so much to casual gamers. I can only imagine what happened to those who weren't aware of its fame as a very hard game. Second: it was a cheap and guaranteed good Wii title, which is rather uncommon; you usually pay a lot for decent Wii games, because you have to get Nintendo titles.
Project_Xii Sep 26, 2009 at 7:22 pm
+1 votes
I know that once gamers have found ways to break a game, some of them really. really hate it when the developers do eventually patch it out. Odd, that some people find the broken features to be the "fun" part of the game hehe. I know it certainly becomes a crutch for most of them.
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