In the Gold Mine added on Jul 10 2008
|
by Agamemnon, Level 36
Last updated at January 6, 2009, 11:58 pm
|
The year 2008 had to be the worst year for the MMO market. Games like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate: London, and Age of Conan made their debuts in this year and two of them are still hanging by a string. While Hellgate and Tabula Rasa were released in 2007, I still count them towards the 2008 year, as it was their chance to redeem their selves from poor launches and they were nearly launched in 2008 anyways. However, when one of these MMOs launched is not the question; the question is what the hell happened?

You Got Flagshipped
To start it all off was Hellgate: London. I can talk for ages about this game, listing the many faults found within it, and I still wouldn't cover all the troubles to it. Here's a game where you can effectively use in a conversation for the epitome to the definition of "everything went wrong." No one could have ever predicted that this game was going to bomb on the scale that it did. You had ex-Blizzard guys (some of which were the creative and original minds behind Diablo) getting together to make a game of their genre. But something went wrong. Maybe it was their CEO "following his heart" when it came to juggling with people's jobs or maybe it was the ridiculous advertising campaign in Korea, or maybe it was just not listening to your beta testers, but I'm willing to bet it was most likely a combination of all of the above. It's pretty bad when a term known as "flagshipping" is coined out of the endeavors you have taken.Essentially, Flagship Studios bit off more than they could chew. A few weeks before Hellgate launched, the original staff working on the game was immediately moved over to Mythos, another project that never got to see the day of light. This mainly had to do in part with how Flagship Studios was in the hole shortly after Hellgate launched and flopped, since there was zero incentive to actually subscribe to nonexistant content, and decided to take out a loan to keep the boat afloat for some borrowed time, putting up the intellectual property rights of Hellgate and Mythos as collateral. Eventually they defaulted on the loan and the company went out of business in August 2008. Out of professional courtesy, Namco is holding up the online servers until February 1, 2009, after which the game will indefinitely be dead (HanbitSoft bought the rights to both games but Namco refuses to hand over the American distribution rights for Hellgate).

There Was Nothing "Clean" About This
Tabula Rasa, in a lot of ways, is Hellgate's ugly twin sister. They released days apart from one another and both had the idea of using a science fiction setting and replacing all weapons with guns. They also put too much on their plate as well, with Richard Garriott offering empty promises that were never delivered. With an unappealing front on nearly all sides of the game, it never picked up, and those that stuck with it started to lose interest when things never got fixed. See what I mean by the ugly sister of Hellgate?
Eventually it busted as well, but this had to do more with Richard Garriott, who in an unprecedented turn-about decided to take a vacation in space for around $30 million. Shortly thereafter the old coot must have popped an aneurysm because he upped and left NCSoft dry in a short goodbye letter. Weeks thereafter NCSoft announced that they were going to stop supporting Tabula Rasa, and the game became free to play on December 23, 2008 while the servers are going to close down on February 28, 2009. See, they're even closing down in the same month. NCSoft and Richard Garriott, both veterans in their respect of the MMO industry, prove, just like Flagship Studios did, that experience means a load of crock if you're not going to try and make an effort to fixing broken products.

The Lonely Sea
Having had the opportunity to beta test Pirates of the Burning Sea, it pains me to still see that Flying Lab Software still cannot recover from a failed launch. While the concept of ship fighting was interesting and hadn't really been fooled around with since Pirates! Gold, the other features to Pirates of the Burning Sea were tacked on and rather undeveloped. Avatar combat was the number one most complained about thing in Pirates and for good reason; a lot of missions required you to enact in avatar combat, which was largely unbalanced.
The problem, however, is that Flying Lab Software did eventually fix the game of its major bugs and glitches and did improve on many weak aspects of the game, but it was too late; the damage had already been done. Here's where a case of too little too late comes in, reminding us, again, that unfinished games don't get high marks or keep people around for very long. It became quite apparent, however, when they shut down seven of the eleven servers and are currently trying to offer incentives for people to subscribe and play. Being able to design your own flags and sails is cool, but not cool enough to keep people around for Pirates of the Burning Sea.

Age of Tortage
Age of Conan was perhaps the only other MMO in 2008 to rival the troubles that Hellgate boasted. Funcom, or lovingly dubbed Failcom by critics, also tried tried to bite off more than they could chew. Also being a beta tester for this game, I could immediately get the sense and feeling that it was going to crash and burn at its launch (literally--Age of Conan is known for its many problems with CTDs). Age of Conan boasted the large and extensive world of Hyboria, but with the lack of content and direction to the game outside of the starter area, followed by a myriad of troubles regarding city building and PvP, and you had one of the most ultimate recipes for disaster.
Like Hellgate, Age of Conan never truly improved. It released content patches, but the game was still plagued by the many flaws of the core game that still existed. It's troubling to try and understand the thought process to purposely making female avatars weaker than the male avatars, but then it all comes together when you look at the full scope of Age of Conan and you found that you were looking at a miserable pile of lies. In September 2008 Funcom announced server merges, and just last month laid off 70% of the North American staff. To quote a friend: "...Mostly their Customer Support and QA sections [were laid off], meaning that the game should continue to function exactly as it did before." Of course, Funcom continues to deny that this has any affect on Age of Conan. Yeah, where have I heard that before?

Recap and Recrap
So now we know what happened, but how about why this happened? Was it essentially that there was just too many MMOs trying to make it in the MMO market in the wrong time frame? Or perhaps the economy had its hand in this fiasco as well? And what about the power hitter of them all, WoW; is there no more room for MMOs because of it? The answer to all such questions is no. Hell no, in fact. If an apologist fan (or Bill Roper) of any of these games tries to blame the previous as to why these games never became a success then they clearly have a few screws loose. No, these games failed because their developers let it happen.
New Is Cool--If You Do It Right
One thing these four MMOs had in common is that they all tried to do something new for the market. Hellgate tried its hand at FPS combat, Tabula Rasa had the battlegrounds, Pirates had ship combat, and Age of Conan had city building. These are, essentially, the main points to those games (sans Conan, which failed on all fronts) and were the advertised features. The problem, however, is that while most of the games did good in these new endeavors, they failed to successfully implement them when it came to the rest of the game. Ironically the new features that were supposed to make the games critical successes was one of the main reasons why they failed.
Beta Testers--Use Em' Or Lose Em'
Another thing these four MMOs had in common is that they all had beta testing periods. Some of them were extensive while some of them...well, not so much. However, there was a testing phase to be had. Now, traditionally, a testing phase is when you bring outsiders to view the progress of the game so far to help report bugs and problems and provide feedback on the game overall. Now, I beta tested three of the four games that I touched on in this article, and from personal experience I can say that little, if nothing, was actually considered by the developers from beta testing feedback. The worst offender of them all is a toss up between Hellgate and Conan, though I will have to say Conan was a total war zone in the following weeks to launch with every other thread full of curses and insults. In effect, this is what a beta tester actually has to do in order to be noticed, and it's disgusting. Why bring in beta testers if you're not even going to listen to them and the game has already been shipped?
"Patch And Go" Is Not A Motto To Live By
Again, a common flaw these four shared is that the developers thought they could launch the game in its beta state and then fix it in the coming months when content patches came along. The only problem is that these are MMOs; people are paying monthly subscriptions to play a game, but they're expecting it to work as well. By the time a developer is actually finally able to bring the game up to par, the vast majority of the launch players have already left and canceled their subscriptions, and no matter what a developer might say, the damage has been done. People are not going to pay to test games.
Gamers Are People Too
If an MMO developer views their subscribers as dollar signs, then there is going to be a communication barrier when it comes to player feedback in the coming days after the launch and the months after from the loyal fans. You keep ignoring them or mistreating them and it will come back to bite you in the ass. Some of those people are the only reason why the game is still alive. Flagship Studios is the biggest offender of them all when it was found out that the community manager was actively banning critics posting constructive criticism off the forums. Hell, the Hellgate forums were private from viewing until I brought it up in a thread.
And while developers should take into consideration that gamers are people, fellow gamers should also take that into consideration too. Another major problem with Hellgate is that the die-hard fans were quick to insult to a degrading level new players that came to the forums and complained about the game, essentially telling them to leave. Chances are they did just that. Keep in mind when you think you are helping out the game or the developers when you do things like that you are, most likely, hurting them. A company is not going to continue game support for 12 angry fanboys.

The Grass Is Greener In Azeroth
While 2008 was essentially a bad year for starter MMOs, there was one MMO that managed to succeed. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning seemed to pull itself into a niche and is beginning to shape up well in stabilizing itself. While the road seemed rocky at first with the cutting of content right before launch, Mythic Entertainment's promises are actually shaping up and turning out to hold true. In other news, Turbine released Mines of Moria, expansion to Lord of the Rings Online, Blizzard released Wrath of the Lich King, expansion to World of Warcraft, and Sony Online Entertainment released The Shadow Odyssey, expansion to Everquest II. Let's not forget Eve's every-half-year content patches too.
But, in retrospect, that's all that there really is to talk about when it comes to the MMO market. Sure, there's City of Heroes, there's Final Fantasy XI, there's Anarchy Online, there's Star Wars Galaxies, but these are old and tired MMOs whose novelty dates are starting to expire and whose creators are already moving on to new games. Lord of the Rings Online proved to be the new kid on the block in 2007 and Warhammer Online is shaping up to be the new kid on the block in 2008. What will be in store for us in 2009? Hopefully not MMO developers trying get-rich-quick schemes, that's for sure, or else we'll be getting a repeat of 2008 soon enough.

123 comments
Sp3tSnAz Jan 7, 2009 at 2:38 am
+1 votes
Wonder if we'll hear anymore about the warhammer 40k MMO in 09....
ThyrsaM Jan 7, 2009 at 5:26 am
+1 votes
Well I am playing LOTRO and am really enjoying the game so far. Have spent about 10 hours per day on it the past holidays and will continue to poor about 10 per week in it now that work begun again. Really good game.
Agamemnon Jan 7, 2009 at 6:07 am
+1 votes
I've always been very critical about MMOs, but LotRO is the only one that has ever actually made me want to play and seem worth-while for my time and money. Considering that and how the player base only continues to grow and it's glad to see a new contender to the giants. We need competition in this market.
Project_Xii Jan 7, 2009 at 6:41 am
+1 votes
Games like CoD4, Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 are the closest I'll ever get to an MMO. Not because they're bad, but my personality type suits them EXACTLY.
I love making classes, finding loot, exploring lands. I love teaming up with people and going off to take down massive bad guys. Basically; if I played WoW, i would NEVER see sunlight again. Or my family, or my friends, my work, my social life, any other game, nor save any money.
It's taken an enormous amount of willpower to avoid all these games, especially with 4 or 5 work mates all harassing me every day. But I've managed it so far, and I'll continue too. I could play god knows how many games for the monthly subscriptions fees you pay!
MMO's are just not safe, and should come with warning labels, in my opinion. I've lost too many good mates to them
I love making classes, finding loot, exploring lands. I love teaming up with people and going off to take down massive bad guys. Basically; if I played WoW, i would NEVER see sunlight again. Or my family, or my friends, my work, my social life, any other game, nor save any money.
It's taken an enormous amount of willpower to avoid all these games, especially with 4 or 5 work mates all harassing me every day. But I've managed it so far, and I'll continue too. I could play god knows how many games for the monthly subscriptions fees you pay!
MMO's are just not safe, and should come with warning labels, in my opinion. I've lost too many good mates to them
Zombiemachine Jan 7, 2009 at 6:47 am
+1 votes
Point is, as long as WoW remains the best experience around, people will continue to play it over newer games. Sure, they'll try them out for a month or so, but then return again to WoW. A new game not only has to offer something new to hook the players, but also do everything WoW does at least as good. Not an easy task I reckon. Perhaps Diablo 3 will shake things up a bit.
Agamemnon Jan 7, 2009 at 7:37 am
+1 votes
I think the biggest thing for WoW is that not only did it have the mysticism behind it that Blizzard was doing an MMO, but it was also successfully marketed to nearly every country around the globe that has Internet access. The other equation to WoW's success deals with how long the game has been established, giving it the time to sort out the mess from its beginning and build up on loads and loads of new content. Not only do new MMOs have to compete with trying to intice people to play them, but they also have to convince them that their MMO has enough content to keep them as satisfied as they are in WoW.
Having said that, I don't enjoy WoW. I give props where it is needed, but I could never get into the game. I've run about four different trials every five or six months and each time further it becomes even more unbearable. I don't know if it's the graphics and color combination, because they give me a headache (and I don't mean metaphorically--they physically give me a headache), or if it's the feeling that I need to take my character "at least" to a specific level to start enjoying the game, but it's something I can never pin it on. In retrospect, if WoW had a lifetime subscription option, I'd be more interested in it.
Having said that, I don't enjoy WoW. I give props where it is needed, but I could never get into the game. I've run about four different trials every five or six months and each time further it becomes even more unbearable. I don't know if it's the graphics and color combination, because they give me a headache (and I don't mean metaphorically--they physically give me a headache), or if it's the feeling that I need to take my character "at least" to a specific level to start enjoying the game, but it's something I can never pin it on. In retrospect, if WoW had a lifetime subscription option, I'd be more interested in it.
Project_Xii Jan 7, 2009 at 8:30 am
+1 votes
It's the type of thing where you need to keep playing, cause if you stop for too long, you'll probably stop for good. The idea of having to "do all that again" is usually so off putting for any normal person, that they simply can't be bothered.
The sheer about of man hours required to reach level 80 is staggering, and doing it on multiple accounts just seems... overwhelming really.
I think of it as "Pokemon Syndrome" :P From back in the gameboy days. While you're playing it, you really do want to catch every single one of those little ****s. But put it down for a week or two, and suddenly you wonder "Why the hell did that seem so important?"
Same with WoW. Leave it to long, reality kicks in, and suddenly the need, the drive to become the most powerful character just feels.... lame
The sheer about of man hours required to reach level 80 is staggering, and doing it on multiple accounts just seems... overwhelming really.
I think of it as "Pokemon Syndrome" :P From back in the gameboy days. While you're playing it, you really do want to catch every single one of those little ****s. But put it down for a week or two, and suddenly you wonder "Why the hell did that seem so important?"
Same with WoW. Leave it to long, reality kicks in, and suddenly the need, the drive to become the most powerful character just feels.... lame
Ghork Jan 7, 2009 at 9:22 am
+1 votes
Zombiemachine said
Point is, as long as WoW remains the best experience around, people will continue to play it over newer games. Sure, they'll try them out for a month or so, but then return again to WoW. A new game not only has to offer something new to hook the players, but also do everything WoW does at least as good. Not an easy task I reckon. Perhaps Diablo 3 will shake things up a bit.
Dragonchi26 Jan 7, 2009 at 12:01 pm
+1 votes
I was in the Beta tests for HG:L, Burning sea and Conan. what i always thought was really funny. was that one of the early beta builds for hellgate actually worked better than the polished product. all 3 of those games are worth an equally elongated rant on their own. each one makes me shiver and nautious thinking about it. WoW, while still enormously successful, (duh..its BLIZZARD) does have its dark sides. there have been many many stories from friends and friends of friends, where their account was wrongfully banned because their account was hacked and told blizz about it. my account was hacked, lost a **** ton of stuff and all my gold. but i couldn't say anything for fear of losing my account. so that stopped me from playing WoW ever again. now im just happy and content as ever play Ragnarok Online (Private Server). which to me, is the most fun and addictive game apart from Diablo 2.
CloudFire Jan 7, 2009 at 1:25 pm
+1 votes
i agree. 2008 was t3h sux for MMO's. i'm a huge mmo fan and was disappointed by every game. Runes of Magic is a very decent mmo game that is in open beta, you should give it a try! also check out Aion: The Tower of Eternity. that is my #1 game i'm waiting for. Higher priorty than Starcraft 2 for me
2009 looks promising because of those two games.
Sp3tSnAz Jan 8, 2009 at 12:16 am
+1 votes
Is Runes of Magic actually good? I've been thinking of trying it out.
CloudFire May 18, 2009 at 2:32 am
+1 votes
yea you should definitely check it out. it's free (really), you can buy the stuff in the games, but it's mostly cosmetics and some item enhancing stuff, nothing you absolutely need, unless you are compulsive and want to be the very best :P
twincannon Jan 8, 2009 at 3:37 am
+1 votes
you can certainly chalk warhammer on the "failed mmo's" list. it's failing at least as hard as conan.
Sol Invictus Jan 8, 2009 at 5:19 am
+2 votes
twincannon said
you can certainly chalk warhammer on the "failed mmo's" list. it's failing at least as hard as conan.
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Warhammer-Age-of-Reckoning-A-Boring-Disappointment/Â
Agamemnon Jan 8, 2009 at 12:00 pm
+1 votes
twincannon said
you can certainly chalk warhammer on the "failed mmo's" list. it's failing at least as hard as conan.
But the common complaints to Warhammer, like grind quests or grind mobs...Uh, hello? Welcome to MMOs? Welcome to what you will find in every other MMO including the coveted World of Warcraft?
roflectomy Jan 8, 2009 at 9:34 am
+1 votes
I have to wonder how one can call Warhammer Online a "success". The game has been out for a while now and STILL suffers from a lack of content and people seem to generally get bored of the game within the first couple of weeks. You can blame that on a low level cap which is way too easy to reach, and a lack of new things to do once you reach that cap.Â
The only MMO that can honestly be considered anywhere near the success of World of Warcraft is the one that many people overlook, and that is RuneScape. It's easy for most people to overlook Jagex's little browser-based java game, however, when you look at the market share of MMO subscriptions, you would make the realization that it should NOT be overlooked so easily, considering there are about 2 million people who pay to play Runescape, and millions more free players who make the company money from advertisement. Andrew and Paul Gower (the creators) are actually in the top 700 richest people in the UK, just from this Java based game they launched 8 years ago. The game has survived some radical changes from complete graphic and engine overhauls to major changes to the trading and pvp systems (changes which received mostly negative critcism) and still manages to have 200,000-300.000 players on during peak times thanks to what can only be described as extremely addictive gameplay. Whether or not you enjoy the game personally, it's hard to argue against the game being successful.
The only MMO that can honestly be considered anywhere near the success of World of Warcraft is the one that many people overlook, and that is RuneScape. It's easy for most people to overlook Jagex's little browser-based java game, however, when you look at the market share of MMO subscriptions, you would make the realization that it should NOT be overlooked so easily, considering there are about 2 million people who pay to play Runescape, and millions more free players who make the company money from advertisement. Andrew and Paul Gower (the creators) are actually in the top 700 richest people in the UK, just from this Java based game they launched 8 years ago. The game has survived some radical changes from complete graphic and engine overhauls to major changes to the trading and pvp systems (changes which received mostly negative critcism) and still manages to have 200,000-300.000 players on during peak times thanks to what can only be described as extremely addictive gameplay. Whether or not you enjoy the game personally, it's hard to argue against the game being successful.
Agamemnon Jan 8, 2009 at 12:15 pm
+1 votes
I probably forgot about RuneScape because of how forgettable it is. I'm not sure where you're pulling two million subscribers from; the only news I can find of mention of recent subscriber numbers is one million. And here's a secret that MMO companies like to use; they like to include inactive and boxing accounts too. No, what has probably generated success for Jagex Ltd. are the ads that have been around for nearly a decade. I'm sure every 13-year-old, at one point in their life, takes a look at Runescape, plays around with it, and then finds out how decidingly boring the game is before leaving. In fact, I'm willing to bet as much simply because of the current ratings surrounding this game still, media or user-generated otherwise. And I suppose being around since 2001 wouldn't have anything to do with how long it has taken them to reach such numbers. Compared to failures like Age of Conan, which had more than 500,000 subscribers in the first three months, and you can see the difference from an actual commerical MMO and someone's backwater project (despite how far they have come).
roflectomy Jan 8, 2009 at 3:56 pm
+1 votes
Forgettable? Yes because forgettable games last 8 years and are just now reaching the height of their popularity.
Also, look at the failure Age of Conan which had 500,000 subscribers in 3 months but couldn't follow through and probably has 1/3rd of that number by now, if not less. Jagex has never had a net loss of subscribers, despite the fact that you can play a free version of the game.
On Jagex's website, they list these statistics in the information about getting your advertisments on their site: "RuneScape.com accepts advertising from reputable advertisers around the world. RuneScape, the game, has over 5.4 million active players. These players have logged-in in the last 2 weeks. RuneScape.com has over 10 million unique users a month, according to Media Metrix."
Calling a game with 8 years of staying power and those kind of statistic forgettable is rather ignorant. It just shows that you hold the same bias toward the game that most other MMO fans do.
Also, look at the failure Age of Conan which had 500,000 subscribers in 3 months but couldn't follow through and probably has 1/3rd of that number by now, if not less. Jagex has never had a net loss of subscribers, despite the fact that you can play a free version of the game.
On Jagex's website, they list these statistics in the information about getting your advertisments on their site: "RuneScape.com accepts advertising from reputable advertisers around the world. RuneScape, the game, has over 5.4 million active players. These players have logged-in in the last 2 weeks. RuneScape.com has over 10 million unique users a month, according to Media Metrix."
Calling a game with 8 years of staying power and those kind of statistic forgettable is rather ignorant. It just shows that you hold the same bias toward the game that most other MMO fans do.
Agamemnon Jan 9, 2009 at 1:19 pm
+0 votes
"Just now reaching the height of their popularity" would be the key words in your statement. And don't take this personally, but I take so-called "statistics" that are plugged when they are trying to sell advertising space is not what I would call reliable, including plugs that come from the VP of Microsoft. You believe what you want to believe. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, sure, maybe there are 80,000 13-year-olds playing this at peak times. I can only wonder how many are actually gold sellers, gold spammers, and power levelers though. Guess you really can't out those guys when counting ALL players, subscriber or non-subscriber alike.
The reality is that anyone over the age of 13 is likely to stop playing after they realize what a terrible game RuneScape is, and yes, you can quote me on that one. Considering there are better F2P MMOs out there, forgive me if I call BS on how you try and paint RuneScape like a radical success that maintains millions of players that subscribe for months on end. Yeah, okay, sure.
The reality is that anyone over the age of 13 is likely to stop playing after they realize what a terrible game RuneScape is, and yes, you can quote me on that one. Considering there are better F2P MMOs out there, forgive me if I call BS on how you try and paint RuneScape like a radical success that maintains millions of players that subscribe for months on end. Yeah, okay, sure.
roflectomy Jan 10, 2009 at 6:59 am
+1 votes
First of all, those statistics HAVE to be accurate. If they were not accurate, Jagex would be facing legal troubles considering they'd be giving misleading information to potential customers.
Second, You're one of those closed minded people who actually believe that everyone who plays RuneScape is 13 just because the graphics aren't on the same level as other MMOs. If you actually PLAY RuneScape, you'll find that there are a LOT of older, more mature players. Your experience with the game (if you have any at all, and I'm doubting you do from the way you speak of it) probably comes from a couple of hours on F2P.
There are 83500 people online RIGHT NOW on RuneScape and it's an off time since most people who play are from the US and most Americans are sleeping right now. RuneScape doesn't have the same problems with gold selling, spamming, and power leveling as other games do either. Selling gold on RuneScape is such a ridiculously long and drawn out process now that most people have given up on the idea. Gold spammers don't really exist in game, thanks to the fact that you can't type urls without them being filtered.
The truth here is that because YOU don't like the game, you assume everyone else dislikes it too and that anyone who plays is young. Unfortunately for you, you're wrong. Just because the game doesn't appeal to YOU doesn't mean it's not a success. So go ahead and say what you want, but it doesn't change the fact that RuneScape is a bigger success than any MMO out besides WoW.
It's a good thing nobody pays you for this. You love sweeping generalizations and lack objectivity.
Second, You're one of those closed minded people who actually believe that everyone who plays RuneScape is 13 just because the graphics aren't on the same level as other MMOs. If you actually PLAY RuneScape, you'll find that there are a LOT of older, more mature players. Your experience with the game (if you have any at all, and I'm doubting you do from the way you speak of it) probably comes from a couple of hours on F2P.
There are 83500 people online RIGHT NOW on RuneScape and it's an off time since most people who play are from the US and most Americans are sleeping right now. RuneScape doesn't have the same problems with gold selling, spamming, and power leveling as other games do either. Selling gold on RuneScape is such a ridiculously long and drawn out process now that most people have given up on the idea. Gold spammers don't really exist in game, thanks to the fact that you can't type urls without them being filtered.
The truth here is that because YOU don't like the game, you assume everyone else dislikes it too and that anyone who plays is young. Unfortunately for you, you're wrong. Just because the game doesn't appeal to YOU doesn't mean it's not a success. So go ahead and say what you want, but it doesn't change the fact that RuneScape is a bigger success than any MMO out besides WoW.
It's a good thing nobody pays you for this. You love sweeping generalizations and lack objectivity.
Agamemnon Jan 10, 2009 at 10:30 am
+0 votes
Right, I'm sure that Microsoft VP is facing legal charges right now for falsifying information. Get real. There are no repercussions to be had for information that is private to the company.
And despite this so-called "glorious" and supposedly vast player base, there seems to be nary a Runescape fan to be found (well, except you). In fact, in the last eight years, you are the first person I have found that has actually said he continues to enjoy the game (*awaits while you post this on a Runescape fan forum to bring them all out of the woodwork*). What data does GamerDNA, a highly respectablerespecticable reporting site on MMO statistics, have to say about RuneScape? Nothing. What does the rest of the media have to say about RuneScape? Nothing. And what do you blame? Bias? Who are you kidding?
Tell me, if there is such a gigantic fan base with "older" members, where are they? Because media sites would be reporting on the game if there was a fan base to be had. In fact, are you even sure that this fan base is even American? You sure it's not some European country that got the Internet five years ago and everyone's playing RuneScape? By the way, my "limited" playing experience came from playing for two months back in 2001 and firing up the game just a moment ago. Both times there were idiots running around, cursing at each other in chat. I'd speak in full sentences and someone would make a mama joke. Yeah, I can see what you mean by older and mature community. I mean, unless everyone is masquerading as a 13-year-old.
Add to the fact that WildTangent is in charge of their market distribution and I'd say your high-and-mighty stomping of "factual" statistics means zip now. Yeah, there's a company I really trust. You want to know the truth of it is? No, I don't like the game. I thought I made that obviously clear in my first response to you, but because I don't like it I have not made the assumption that no one else does. It's not surprising that people enjoy this game. I imagine if I set my standards to extremely low then I'd probably enjoy it too. And, like I've said before, some people even prefer Hellgate over any other game. I don't doubt that there are some that enjoy terrible content games, but I also don't doubt by the sheer lack of talk and buzz behind this so-called "high statistical" MMO stems from the fact that people did give it a whirl some odd years ago and realized how terrible it was.
The second truth here is that you enjoy the game and, obviously, any sort of criticism against it makes your blood boil. That's fine, if it works for you then it works for me. If success is measured in inching your way after eight years to achieve members (STILL unknown if they are including inactive accounts, boxers, or including every account ever created) that other MMOs achieve in months, then I'd have to say the standards for success aren't very high in your book. What's next, a D is a passing grade and is therefore acceptable to you?
And despite this so-called "glorious" and supposedly vast player base, there seems to be nary a Runescape fan to be found (well, except you). In fact, in the last eight years, you are the first person I have found that has actually said he continues to enjoy the game (*awaits while you post this on a Runescape fan forum to bring them all out of the woodwork*). What data does GamerDNA, a highly respectablerespecticable reporting site on MMO statistics, have to say about RuneScape? Nothing. What does the rest of the media have to say about RuneScape? Nothing. And what do you blame? Bias? Who are you kidding?
Tell me, if there is such a gigantic fan base with "older" members, where are they? Because media sites would be reporting on the game if there was a fan base to be had. In fact, are you even sure that this fan base is even American? You sure it's not some European country that got the Internet five years ago and everyone's playing RuneScape? By the way, my "limited" playing experience came from playing for two months back in 2001 and firing up the game just a moment ago. Both times there were idiots running around, cursing at each other in chat. I'd speak in full sentences and someone would make a mama joke. Yeah, I can see what you mean by older and mature community. I mean, unless everyone is masquerading as a 13-year-old.
Add to the fact that WildTangent is in charge of their market distribution and I'd say your high-and-mighty stomping of "factual" statistics means zip now. Yeah, there's a company I really trust. You want to know the truth of it is? No, I don't like the game. I thought I made that obviously clear in my first response to you, but because I don't like it I have not made the assumption that no one else does. It's not surprising that people enjoy this game. I imagine if I set my standards to extremely low then I'd probably enjoy it too. And, like I've said before, some people even prefer Hellgate over any other game. I don't doubt that there are some that enjoy terrible content games, but I also don't doubt by the sheer lack of talk and buzz behind this so-called "high statistical" MMO stems from the fact that people did give it a whirl some odd years ago and realized how terrible it was.
The second truth here is that you enjoy the game and, obviously, any sort of criticism against it makes your blood boil. That's fine, if it works for you then it works for me. If success is measured in inching your way after eight years to achieve members (STILL unknown if they are including inactive accounts, boxers, or including every account ever created) that other MMOs achieve in months, then I'd have to say the standards for success aren't very high in your book. What's next, a D is a passing grade and is therefore acceptable to you?
roflectomy Jan 11, 2009 at 1:54 am
+1 votes
Woo more generalizing.
Seriously, stop generalizing something just because you don't like it. Accept facts and move on. You basically just admitted that your experience comes from playing for a bit after its release and for a few minutes just today...all on free to play I might add. The f2p community NOW is ****...everyone knows and expects that. However, if you had played in 2001, you wouldn't have been able to make those generalizations since in 2001, there were only a few thousand players, nearly none of which were as immature as you seem to think.
Your generalizations are the same BS that has been spouted for ages about the game. No matter what YOUR opinion is, at the end of the day, it IS a success. And just because one or two sites don't feature it doesn't change that. The fanbase is huge and you are unwilling to admit it because it'd make your blog wrong and knock your ego down a couple of notches.
And I'm not defending the game because I enjoy it. In fact, I barely play it now. The only reason I ever play any more is because I have some friends that I still go on to talk to. I'm defending the game because it's a success that is often overlooked.
Seriously just admit that it's a success and that you were wrong because I've given you hard facts and all your information is generalizations and personal opinions. It wouldn't be the first time you were wrong in this article. I mean, just look at all the DDO replies
Seriously, stop generalizing something just because you don't like it. Accept facts and move on. You basically just admitted that your experience comes from playing for a bit after its release and for a few minutes just today...all on free to play I might add. The f2p community NOW is ****...everyone knows and expects that. However, if you had played in 2001, you wouldn't have been able to make those generalizations since in 2001, there were only a few thousand players, nearly none of which were as immature as you seem to think.
Your generalizations are the same BS that has been spouted for ages about the game. No matter what YOUR opinion is, at the end of the day, it IS a success. And just because one or two sites don't feature it doesn't change that. The fanbase is huge and you are unwilling to admit it because it'd make your blog wrong and knock your ego down a couple of notches.
And I'm not defending the game because I enjoy it. In fact, I barely play it now. The only reason I ever play any more is because I have some friends that I still go on to talk to. I'm defending the game because it's a success that is often overlooked.
Seriously just admit that it's a success and that you were wrong because I've given you hard facts and all your information is generalizations and personal opinions. It wouldn't be the first time you were wrong in this article. I mean, just look at all the DDO replies
Agamemnon Jan 11, 2009 at 2:50 am
+0 votes
Wait, who has the ego? The guy who keeps coming back and keeps saying I'm supposedly wrong? What have you provided after I've knocked down your so-called "proof?" "Oh, well, I said so." Go ahead, pat yourself on the back. What ever helps you sleep at night.
Second, what I said about DDO stands. How about that. The flurry of comments came from people who misunderstood what I was saying. So give another pat on the back to yourself.
But I do love that first bit though. Oh, I see. I have to actually subscribe for RuneScape to become good. Ha, no. Nice try. If the game fails to entice me even after eight years of "improvement" then it's still the same failure I knew when it was first getting started. Talk about sweeping generalizations as well; supposedly my two hours of running around doing quests translates to a "few minutes" in your book. Oh wait, I didn't actually tell you how long I was in the game before, did I?
Ksh. Hello, Pot? This is Kettle, Over. Ksh.
It's also interesting to note that as Internet arguments draw on longer without a change in stance the one with a losing argument will bait the other in a last-ditch effort by calling them egotistical. Sorry, did you actually have anything intelligent to add? If not, exit stage left to the deinternetized zone.
Second, what I said about DDO stands. How about that. The flurry of comments came from people who misunderstood what I was saying. So give another pat on the back to yourself.
But I do love that first bit though. Oh, I see. I have to actually subscribe for RuneScape to become good. Ha, no. Nice try. If the game fails to entice me even after eight years of "improvement" then it's still the same failure I knew when it was first getting started. Talk about sweeping generalizations as well; supposedly my two hours of running around doing quests translates to a "few minutes" in your book. Oh wait, I didn't actually tell you how long I was in the game before, did I?
Ksh. Hello, Pot? This is Kettle, Over. Ksh.
It's also interesting to note that as Internet arguments draw on longer without a change in stance the one with a losing argument will bait the other in a last-ditch effort by calling them egotistical. Sorry, did you actually have anything intelligent to add? If not, exit stage left to the deinternetized zone.
Groovymarlin Jan 8, 2009 at 10:47 am
+1 votes
I'm probably in the minority, but I really enjoyed Hellgate: London. I thought it was unique, it was fast-paced, with tons of loot and lots of action and a really cool backstory. I think they really could have done a lot with it, given time, but you correctly pin the failure of HG:L on the management. Poor decisions were made before, during, and after the launch that the company never recovered from, and it poisoned the game.
I'll miss it.
I'll miss it.
Corlain Jan 8, 2009 at 12:35 pm
+3 votes
You guys should try Turbines other MMO. Dungeons and Dragons Online has FPS style play and they are raising the cap in a couple of months, along with alot of character customization and party centric questing.
Surprised the author didn't mention DDO in his article along with LotRO.
Surprised the author didn't mention DDO in his article along with LotRO.
Agamemnon Jan 8, 2009 at 12:57 pm
+0 votes
I didn't because, for one, DDO is slowly dying, and second, Turbine has the vast majority of its focus on LotRO and, apparently, an unannounced project. That, and DDO has received less-than-stellar reviews. Yes, I am aware that they are still releasing content patches and that the game came out two years ago, but, unfortunately, when compared to the volume of other MMOs I listed, I do not believe it stacks up, which is the same reason why I didn't mention AC either (despite AC being one of the most influential MMOs from which other MMOs have pulled ideas from, including WoW).
trissacoldrake Jan 8, 2009 at 1:28 pm
+3 votes
Wow. When has anyone in the MMO reporting community playedthis game? two years ago? at Start THREE years ago? Alot has changed and for the better. For agame that was "failed" and "doomed" from the beginning, it's still around. Yeah, it will never be as big as some of the PvP-centric games like WoW, but it does have better graphics, character creation, and quests than that game. Not to mention the fact the best combat system around.
I wish people would stop saying doom to this game when they have not even played it recently.
And if it is doomed, it's going kicking and screaming into the night.
I wish people would stop saying doom to this game when they have not even played it recently.
And if it is doomed, it's going kicking and screaming into the night.
Corlain Jan 8, 2009 at 1:34 pm
+5 votes
I disagree that it is slowly dying. It has remained somewhat static and with the New Player Experience there is some new blood coming in.
Agreed that Turbine does have more resources in LotRO. The unannounced project is supposed to be a console port, at least that is what has been alluded to on the forums. It won't be DDO, could be LotRO or another new project.
Most reviews that I have seen for DDO have been excellent. The volume comparison I can understand.
Curious, have you or anyone else reading tried DDO longer than a couple of days? Not trying to flame or cause a problem, just curious.
Agreed that Turbine does have more resources in LotRO. The unannounced project is supposed to be a console port, at least that is what has been alluded to on the forums. It won't be DDO, could be LotRO or another new project.
Most reviews that I have seen for DDO have been excellent. The volume comparison I can understand.
Curious, have you or anyone else reading tried DDO longer than a couple of days? Not trying to flame or cause a problem, just curious.
tihocan Jan 8, 2009 at 1:54 pm
+4 votes
DDO still suffers from a "somewhat failed" launch syndrom. It launched with many standard MMO features missing and too little content to make the MMO crowd happy. I've seen many people claim it was dying since launch, and I have yet to notice it by myself. It keeps getting big content updates, and most people I know who took break to look at other MMOs supposed to be THE DDO-killer (in particular Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, AoC and Warhammer) came back to DDO after being disappointed with these other games.
It's definitely a game you need to play for a while to really enjoy, because it is somewhat unique and has a lot of depth. It really needs more advertising too...
It's definitely a game you need to play for a while to really enjoy, because it is somewhat unique and has a lot of depth. It really needs more advertising too...
Poe76 Jan 8, 2009 at 3:05 pm
+3 votes
Heya Agammemnon (sp) - Have you played DDO? Please don't bash the game
too much before you check it out yourself. Slowly Dying? Not that I've noticed
with the release of the NPE there has been new blood in the game, haven't had
problems getting groups at most levels. Even put a new toon on another server
other than my normal home of Khyber and was pleasantly surprised at how many
peeps were running around in the public instances. Have also been able to
recruit serveral new players into our guild, both newbies and returning vets. My
only complaint to Turbine is there is absolutely no adverstising for this great game.
By the way, try the game Ag, the combat system is flippin great, fast paced and
completely keeps you on your toes. Every friend that tells me they've played WOW,
gets asked hows is the combat...."point and click, auto attack till something dies."
I have no idea how people can pay money for that kind of experience. Plus the
whole collecting Squirrel toes to lvl up will never be remotely exciting to me, glad
i skipped it and bought DDO instead. Come join an elite Waterworks or Gwylan's
stand run with us man, you might be hooked like I was! DDO'ers UNITE!
too much before you check it out yourself. Slowly Dying? Not that I've noticed
with the release of the NPE there has been new blood in the game, haven't had
problems getting groups at most levels. Even put a new toon on another server
other than my normal home of Khyber and was pleasantly surprised at how many
peeps were running around in the public instances. Have also been able to
recruit serveral new players into our guild, both newbies and returning vets. My
only complaint to Turbine is there is absolutely no adverstising for this great game.
By the way, try the game Ag, the combat system is flippin great, fast paced and
completely keeps you on your toes. Every friend that tells me they've played WOW,
gets asked hows is the combat...."point and click, auto attack till something dies."
I have no idea how people can pay money for that kind of experience. Plus the
whole collecting Squirrel toes to lvl up will never be remotely exciting to me, glad
i skipped it and bought DDO instead. Come join an elite Waterworks or Gwylan's
stand run with us man, you might be hooked like I was! DDO'ers UNITE!
jonnyfrag Jan 12, 2009 at 12:09 pm
+1 votes
Agamemnon said
I didn't because, for one, DDO is slowly dying, and second, Turbine has the vast majority of its focus on LotRO and, apparently, an unannounced project. That, and DDO has received less-than-stellar reviews. Yes, I am aware that they are still releasing content patches and that the game came out two years ago, but, unfortunately, when compared to the volume of other MMOs I listed, I do not believe it stacks up, which is the same reason why I didn't mention AC either (despite AC being one of the most influential MMOs from which other MMOs have pulled ideas from, including WoW).
Everything today seems so watered down, generic and just plain blah compared to the 'good ole days.'
Still playing SWG, mostly because I am such a Star Wars fanboy and now playing Vanguard again since they had time to fix it. The systems work better, but the client is still a buggy mess with BSOD and horrible performance issues. Had potential, but whizzed down the leg. It's still somewhat enjoyable, while playing between crashes but I have a feeling my interest will wane soon.
Come on guys, someone give us something original and good!
Let the buyer beware
8 Subscribers
Started December 26, 2008
34 Total Entries
34 Total Entries



Your Comment is being posted. Please wait...